tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6422857.post8519070561786298811..comments2023-10-05T08:25:13.232-04:00Comments on Biblical Evidence for Catholicism: Debate with a Protestant on Aspects of my Book on "Sola Scriptura," Mary and Revelation 12, and Peter and PaulDave Armstronghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07771661758539438173noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6422857.post-83223728428669384562012-09-09T16:16:41.459-04:002012-09-09T16:16:41.459-04:00Well, you are welcome to comment here anytime, Mic...Well, you are welcome to comment here anytime, Michelle, and you'll be treated with respect and Christian courtesy.<br /><br />God bless and have a great day!Dave Armstronghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07771661758539438173noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6422857.post-24568216247471265102012-09-09T12:45:21.035-04:002012-09-09T12:45:21.035-04:00I just want to quickly add that I by no means wish...I just want to quickly add that I by no means wish to argue. I am a Christian who has long term affiliation with Southern Baptists. Without going into great detail, I will say that I am searching. I came across this website not too long ago and the content provided has challenged me on my views. I feel safe enough to comment here as I find this whole thing quite fascinating. I am enjoying reading others comments and thoughts. I'm just here to learn. :)<br />MichelleAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6422857.post-68359507382698914662012-09-09T12:25:25.395-04:002012-09-09T12:25:25.395-04:00Well, at least we agree that the woman is not the ...Well, at least we agree that the woman is not the church. The Church did not replace Israel. Sometime in the future Israel will receive her blessings promised. Again, as far as the symbolism goes, it was my understanding that the sun represented Jacob, the moon represented Rachel and the 12 stars represented the twelve tribes of Israel. It's plausible that during an end time event, a remnant of Israel (the woman) would flee into the wilderness for the 1,260 days and so on. In my humble opinion, it's very easy to dismiss Israel when one has determined in his or her mind that G-d divorced her and that the blessings no longer apply. I only bring up the Israel point to say that I believe it's just as plausible as Mary. If one believes that G-d did indeed divorce Israel and that He is finished with modern day Israel then my point of adding Israel to the list of possibilities would be moot. As far as the woman being Mary, I'm researching it so I cannot give an opinion as this is new to me. <br />MichelleAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6422857.post-2005180927052272702012-08-06T07:41:31.446-04:002012-08-06T07:41:31.446-04:00Hi Zambedos.
If the woman is Israel,(and i`m not ...Hi Zambedos. <br />If the woman is Israel,(and i`m not going to say she is or isn`t ) i`m just saying that if the woman is Israel,then what`s the meaning of the rest of thevers ? Rev. 12:13-17 ? When the dragon saw that it had been thrown down to the earth, it pursued the woman who had given birth to the male child.<br />But the woman was given the two wings of the great eagle, so that she could fly to her place in the desert, where, far from the serpent, she was taken care of for a year, two years, and a half-year.<br />The serpent, however, spewed a torrent of water out of his mouth after the woman to sweep her away with the current.<br />But the earth helped the woman and opened its mouth and swallowed the flood that the dragon spewed out of its mouth.<br />Then the dragon became angry with the woman and went off to wage war against the rest of her offspring, those who keep God's commandments and bear witness to Jesus. It took its position on the sand of the sea. <br />I mean how could these verses and these words concern Israel?Now i can understand that the woman could be all three (Israel,the blessed virgin Mary and the Church ) intermingled together . But to say that the woman is only Israel,then i must humbly disagree .<br />One last point , was not Israel called the son of God? where does the woman thing comes from ? and woman means the mother of all the living,Eve by whom death entered the world and the new Eve,the new woman (the blessed virgin Mary ) through whom life came into the world (our Lord Jesus Christ ) . I could be wrong and i humbly accept to be criticized . Thank you and God bless you .Marounhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17891800446559973689noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6422857.post-48202264468132942992012-08-02T10:55:03.695-04:002012-08-02T10:55:03.695-04:00That sounds plausible to me, sure. I don't thi...That sounds plausible to me, sure. I don't think it overthrows my overall point, because it remains a "dual" or "both/and" view. The problem comes with making it "either/or" and excluding the Marian aspects of it altogether.Dave Armstronghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07771661758539438173noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6422857.post-16882338196964633282012-08-02T06:53:12.549-04:002012-08-02T06:53:12.549-04:00Dave, regarding Michelle's question, I don'...Dave, regarding Michelle's question, I don't think you've answered it. I understand (minimally) the idea of dual interpretation for Mary and the Church, and that's fine. But then there is the protestant interpretation that the woman is Israel, and that Israel as a people gave birth to Christ in the sense that He came from an Israelite bloodline. You are right to say that the Church could not had produced Christ because Christ predated the Church, however this same line of reasoning does not contradict Michelle's idea since Israel did exist before Christ's birth. This is something I have been wondering about as well.<br /><br />If I may attempt to solve my own question, none of this may matter in the sense that the Church consists of Israel and those grafted into Israel. By virtue of this grafting the Church is Israel. At this point claiming that the woman is Israel or the Church amounts to about the same thing, and we resume with our dual interpretation. Not sure if that's correct or even logical, but I am tired so I'm hitting enter.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6422857.post-68646137638146652912012-06-23T11:19:43.816-04:002012-06-23T11:19:43.816-04:00Thank you Dave for your reply. I wasn't referr...Thank you Dave for your reply. I wasn't referring to the church. I was actually referring to Israel as a nation. Right now as a whole, the state of Israel is out of covenant with G-d because they rejected His son, Jesus. I am of the belief that G-s is not finished with Israel and upon Christ's return they will repent. "And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and supplication. They will look on me, the one they have pierced, and they will mourn for him as one mourns for an only child, and grieve bitterly for him as one grieves for a firstborn son." I commented something similar on a different post of yours. I am new to this site and couldn't recall which post I had posted on so I apologize if you find this on a different post. I found your Judaism page so I will read over those. Thanks!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6422857.post-35615116142646051762012-06-22T11:02:48.307-04:002012-06-22T11:02:48.307-04:00Hi Michelle,
Thanks for your question. I actually...Hi Michelle,<br /><br />Thanks for your question. I actually dealt with the issue you raise in this very post. <br /><br />Traditionally, the passage has been given a dual interpretation of referring both to Mary and the Church. In some parts it makes no sense (so I argue above) to use the Church interpretation, and it is more plausible to apply it to Mary.Dave Armstronghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07771661758539438173noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6422857.post-28818889702084066042012-06-21T19:57:50.418-04:002012-06-21T19:57:50.418-04:00Hi. I have a question. I'm baptist and I have ...Hi. I have a question. I'm baptist and I have always been taught that the woman mentioned in Rev that gave birth to the child was referring to Israel giving birth to Jesus. I am new to your site and find it fascinating what I'm reading. Can you elaborate or post a link for me in understanding the Catholic's position on the woman being Mary mother of Jesus? Thank you and G-d bless. <br />MichelleAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6422857.post-43190728026670533022012-06-16T06:37:40.975-04:002012-06-16T06:37:40.975-04:00It always puzzles me when Protestants are quick to...It always puzzles me when Protestants are quick to dismiss Peter's primacy. Do they merely throw out the window antiquities and other various archeological evidence? <br /><br />The Little Labyrinth<br />"Victor . . . was the thirteenth bishop of Rome from Peter" (The Little Labyrinth [A.D. 211], in Eusebius, Church History 5:28:3). <br /><br />Cyprian of Carthage<br />"There is one God and one Christ, and one Church, and one chair founded on Peter by the word of the Lord. It is not possible to set up another altar or for there to be another priesthood besides that one altar and that one priesthood. Whoever has gathered elsewhere is scattering" (Letters 43[40]:5 [A.D. 253]). <br /><br />Tertullian<br />"Was anything withheld from the knowledge of Peter, who is called ‘the rock on which the Church would be built’ [Matt. 16:18] with the power of ‘loosing and binding in heaven and on earth’ [Matt. 16:19]?" (Demurrer Against the Heretics 22 [A.D. 200]).justaguyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00526001900411106376noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6422857.post-87902790976831267412012-05-28T16:42:41.009-04:002012-05-28T16:42:41.009-04:00Hi Maroun,
You may wanna post on the original Fac...Hi Maroun,<br /><br />You may wanna post on the original Facebook thread (link at the top), or Greg may possibly never see your comment.Dave Armstronghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07771661758539438173noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6422857.post-6087712797407046372012-05-28T16:09:06.173-04:002012-05-28T16:09:06.173-04:00Hi Greg .
As an ex Catholic as you claimed you are...Hi Greg .<br />As an ex Catholic as you claimed you are , you are very confused about so many things . And what you claim the Church teaches is not what the Church teaches but what you wrongly believe the Church teaches .<br />Now can i suggest a book for you to read please which will clarify so many things for you ? the book is called , the Catholic controversy , written by saint Francis De Sales. And please do not just read a few pages and then stop and begin to criticize , but please read the whole book and i guarantee you`ll be more than satisfied . <br />By the way , you can read the book on the internet for free if you don`t want to buy it , but i truly suggest that you do . And i promise you , that you will not regret it . <br />The reason why i am suggesting this book , is because Dave already told you that he is very busy and that he does not have time to answer all of your questions . GOD BLESS YOU <br />Please read the bookMarounhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17891800446559973689noreply@blogger.com