tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6422857.post3453589317272378040..comments2023-10-05T08:25:13.232-04:00Comments on Biblical Evidence for Catholicism: John Calvin's Antipathy to Veneration of Saints and Angels vs. Explicit Biblical Evidences of SameDave Armstronghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07771661758539438173noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6422857.post-89649903064972858222014-02-20T16:43:40.776-05:002014-02-20T16:43:40.776-05:00The jailer and King Saul are poor examples. Venera...The jailer and King Saul are poor examples. Veneration of the sort presented by the jailer was ignorant since he was an unbeliever, while Saul was one of the persecutors of one of the greatest men of faith, king David. Saul was a bad man and so is a bad example. Divination is also evil.RAYMONDOhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11694354911916985273noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6422857.post-63211698949277953282013-08-21T05:03:12.909-04:002013-08-21T05:03:12.909-04:00Dave, your most explicit evidence - 1 Samuel 28:14...Dave, your most explicit evidence - 1 Samuel 28:14 - is rather thin. Sure the word describing Saul's worship/veneration can be applied to God, but that only makes Saul more blasphemous. Saul had turned away from God, was rejected by God. Samuel asks in 28:16 (a mere two verses after verse 14 which you say is your most explicit evidence): <br /><br />"Why do you consult me, now that the LORD has turned away from you and become your enemy?” <br /><br />This wasn't a godly man consulting the witch of Endor, quite the opposite. And Catholics have Saul, at this time of his life, an enemy of God, as a role-model? <br /><br />And you mention Acts 10:25-26, and Revelation 19:10, 22:8-9 in passing – verses “Calvin brought up” - but neither make any response, nor give any reason whatsoever why worshipping / venerating created things was actually not okay in these instances. You cannot make sense of them. Even if you had a point with the jailer in Acts 16:29 it wouldn't explain why that same form of worship is expressly forbidden in Revelation 19:10. You don't engage with Calvin at all. And the jailer had not yet been saved, as evidenced by the next verse - "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?" - so why do you take the actions of a non-Christian, uneducated in the faith as a rule for yours? The jailer was terrified by the earthquake, and could see Paul and Silas were favoured by God. And if it was as you say religious veneration (and there is no warrant to force that onto the text), it was more rightly a pagan instinct to bow down than a Christian one. So even if you can rescue Acts 16:29 for Catholicism, that leaves you unable to explain Revelation 19:10.Stephen Galanishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14509266923792169486noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6422857.post-2954470634565339152012-11-01T10:38:47.198-04:002012-11-01T10:38:47.198-04:00Thank you very much. I'm happy that you have g...Thank you very much. I'm happy that you have gotten something out of this excerpt, my website, and another book of mine. God bless!Dave Armstronghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07771661758539438173noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6422857.post-14615822277170850142012-11-01T06:00:43.970-04:002012-11-01T06:00:43.970-04:00Thank you so much for posting this! I'm Greek ...Thank you so much for posting this! I'm Greek Orthodox, and I was reticent bowing to saints during my prayers recently because of those very passage you're analyzing in this article. By reading this material, I realize that I wasn't very wise. I didn't realize that in each of the protestant "proof-verses" there was the term "προσεκύνησεν" which in this case refers to adoration, and is by the way translated by "adorare" in the Vulgate. This attitude is indeed not permissible. In Acts 16 and Luke 24, however, people are bowing and are not rebuked, and their attitude is very close to what I usually feel when bowing to Mary and the saints. I was aware of the many examples of bowing to angels in the OT, but now I also know verses supporting this kind of veneration from the NT. (I guess the confusion might come from the fact that we commonly used the term "προσκυνεσις" in Greek theology to describe the veneration of Mary, the saints, the icons...) <br />Though I'm Orthodox, I've benefitted a lot from your website and your book (Biblical answers for Catholicism). I'm looking forward to read more of them (especially those on Sola Scriptura).Ralehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07598877763052315548noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6422857.post-73631178187412339342012-10-04T12:50:49.402-04:002012-10-04T12:50:49.402-04:00Scripture is indeed an inexhaustible found to wisd...Scripture is indeed an inexhaustible found to wisdom! But most importantly, I love how it never ceases to proclaim Christ in all His splendor in all its parts.<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6422857.post-32369077053618822042012-10-04T12:46:18.837-04:002012-10-04T12:46:18.837-04:00Thank you. I appreciate it. I had great fun studyi...Thank you. I appreciate it. I had great fun studying all this and discovering some of this stuff for the first time. I enjoy few things more than delving deeply into Holy Scripture. And when I find some things I had never seen or thought about before, I'm almost ecstatic. :-)Dave Armstronghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07771661758539438173noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6422857.post-82676978992858993592012-10-04T11:45:26.300-04:002012-10-04T11:45:26.300-04:00This was a wonderful article!
Thanks, Dave.
St. ...This was a wonderful article!<br /><br />Thanks, Dave.<br /><br />St. WormAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6422857.post-3991603974730968152012-10-02T11:49:26.141-04:002012-10-02T11:49:26.141-04:00Thanks, Teresa. That was nice of you.Thanks, Teresa. That was nice of you.Dave Armstronghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07771661758539438173noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6422857.post-48937795197151995212012-10-02T09:14:59.916-04:002012-10-02T09:14:59.916-04:00I have nominated you for the Lumen Christi Award -...I have nominated you for the Lumen Christi Award - http://catholibertarian.com/2012/10/01/thank-you-for-lumen-christi-award/<br /><br />God Bless. Teresahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04908173926196232573noreply@blogger.com