tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6422857.post3068073275356904970..comments2023-10-05T08:25:13.232-04:00Comments on Biblical Evidence for Catholicism: Choice Tidbits from Luther's 1522 Blast Against Henry VIII: Delusions of Grandeur and Extreme Anti-TraditionalismDave Armstronghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07771661758539438173noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6422857.post-46319381071066293362009-06-20T15:13:33.346-04:002009-06-20T15:13:33.346-04:00It is quite an important point to note that most p...It is quite an important point to note that most protestants have no idea how much Luther effects their thinking. They really believe that Sola Scriptura means they are immune from any errors he taught. It is trying to have it both ways but it is common protestant thinking. Until they see the inconsistency these kinds of posts won't impact them.Randyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16751516602395247675noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6422857.post-29071180541363905252009-06-20T08:37:29.645-04:002009-06-20T08:37:29.645-04:00OK, here are the comments I said I'd post soon...OK, here are the comments I said I'd post soon as I found them.<br /><br />These are from Augustine's Sermon 361, <i> On the Resurrection of the Dead,</i> and tie in with what I said in my previous post.<br /><br />Chapter 14. <i>About the idea that Christ was in a position to rise again.</i><br /><br />“And I don’t want to be told that other thing, either. It’s something, you see, said by all who have bowed, even unwilling, to the authority of Christ. I mean, almost none of the pagans, even those who refuse to attach themselves to Christ in devotion, or put off doing so, dare to object to him personally; while they dare to object to Christians rising again, they don’t dare do so to Christ. They bow to the head, and <i>continue to revile the body.</i>” P. 233.<br /><br />Chapter 15. <i>How to answer their exaggerated praise of Christ and their disparaging of Christians.</i><br /><br /> “So they are going to say, 'You tell me that Christ has risen again, and from that you hope for the resurrection of the dead; but Christ was in a position to rise from the dead.' And now he begins to praise Christ, <i>not in order to do him honor,</i> but to make you despair. It is the <i>deadly cunning of the serpent,</i> to turn you away from Christ by praising Christ, <i>to extol deceitfully</i> the one he doesn’t dare to disparage. <br /><br />"He <i>exaggerates the sovereign majesty of Christ</i> in order to make him out quite unique, to stop you hoping for anything like what was demonstrated in his rising again. And he seems, apparently, to be <i>all the more religiously respectful of Christ,</i> when he says, 'Look at the person who dares compare himself to Christ, so that just because Christ rose again, he can imagine that he's going to rise again too!'” P. 234.<br /><br />"Don't let this <i>perverse praise</i> of your emperor disturb you. The insidious tricks of the enemy may disturb you, but the <i>humility and humanity</i> of Christ should console you. This man emphasizes how high above you Christ has been lifted up; Christ, though, says <i>how low he came down to you.</i>" pp. 234-235. <br /><br />Sermons 341-400 (Works of Saint Augustine), John E. Rotelle, Edmund Hill, New City Press, 1997, ISBN 1565480287 ISBN 978-1565480285<br /><br />http://books.google.com/books?id=iE30Zob4v98C&pg=PA233&dq=%22They+bow+to+the+Head,+and+continue+to+revile+the+body%22&lr=Ben Mnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6422857.post-4072396949050949602009-06-19T21:20:55.490-04:002009-06-19T21:20:55.490-04:00“Luther never claimed to be impeccable...”
True. ...“Luther never claimed to be impeccable...”<br /><br />True. But both Luther and Calvin did in fact claim a certain infallibility! No one was permitted to dissent from their teaching. And how blasphemously over-glorified those two have been! They've even likened to Biblical figures such as Moses and Elijah! <br /><br />See, for example:<br /><br /> <i>Old Protestantism and the New</i> by Brian Gerrish, 2004, ISBN: 056708048X <br /><br />http://books.google.com/books?id=BFcyfVhdn9MC&pg=PA47&dq=%22If+Calvin+thought+of+himself+as+God%E2%80%99s+mouthpiece%22&lr=<br /><br />Some quotes:<br /><br />“On April 27, the terminally ill Calvin offered a long farewell speech to the members of the Small Council.... What was happening there reminds one of dying biblical figures, like Moses, who as a leader of the community by divine mandate spoke, taught, and admonished, spending his last hours in humble awareness of his authority.” P. 23.<br /><br /><br />“Dying biblical figures, like Moses”???<br /><br />“Humble awareness of his authority”??? <br /><br />Hmmm....<br /><br />And there's more...<br /><br />“Though divinely called, the Reformer was not himself a supernatural person. Calvin did not even object to Luther being called Elijah. What he repudiated was the eschatological language which identified him as ‘the last Elijah.’” P. 45.<br /><br />[Now if only he had repudiated Luther’s <i>scatological</i> language!] ;)<br /><br />http://forums.catholic.com/showpost.php?p=4059791&postcount=211<br /><br />“Calvin, as we all know, could be dogmatic, overbearing, annoyingly self-confident, and acrimonious in criticism. Moreover, he was stubbornly certain that he spoke as God’s mouthpiece, although, as he engagingly assures us, he did not make up his mind on a certain matter until he had considered it more than three times.” pp. 46-47.<br /><br /><br />“If Calvin thought of himself as God’s mouthpiece, he thought of Luther in the same way, and this did not prevent him from regarding Luther as fallible.” P. 47<br /><br />"They extolled magnificently the excellence of Christ [Christi virtutem] which had lain prostrate or hidden from sight.” p. 41<br /><br /> <br />Now the reason the reformers "extolled magnificently the excellence of Christ,” it would seem, was in order to more readily justify their <i>disparaging</i> of his body, the Church! <br /><br />But this is nothing new. Augustine, for example, says that in his day some of the pagans (those not bold enough to actually attack Christ himself) would even highly praise Christ, but did so mainly to show how far Christ was above his body, and that what the Head could do (rise from the dead, for example), the body, being so utterly inferior, must ever despair of doing. <br /><br />Augustine, of course, corrects this kind of phony, exaggerated praise of Christ (I'll find the exact quote and post it later this evening). <br /><br />But my point is basically this: There appears to be a curious (though perhaps inexact) parallel between the pagan’s praise of Christ and the reformer’s praise of Christ, inasmuch as they each purposed, at least in part, to exalt the Head (and / or the bible in the reformer's case) only in order to revile the body!<br /><br />But why would Protestants ever want to revile Christ's body? Two reasons: <br /><br />a. To efface Christ's activity in history.<br /><br />b. Ignorance. Protestantism has simply failed utterly to understood the meaning and implication of the Incarnation, of God becoming man, so that man might become god. <br /><br />Thus in a certain sense (and I don't mean to offend), Protestantism is a Paganized Christianity! Consider: <br /><br />a. The Pagans have no parallel to the <i>Mystical Body;</i> only man at one end, and sundry deities at the other. No intimate union, no "partakers of the divine nature." <br /><br />b. Protestantism, likewise, has man at one end, God at the other, and, minus the Mystical Body, lives practically <i>as though the Incarnation never took place!</i><br /><br />Think about it.<br /><br /><br />"We have a safety valve to prevent pretentious pontificators from introducing false doctrines. You do not."<br /><br />Not true! The Church had battled (and defeated) countless multitudes of heretics for 1500 years before Luther and Calvin!<br /><br />God bless.Ben Mnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6422857.post-20289771052708246982009-06-19T20:05:36.891-04:002009-06-19T20:05:36.891-04:00The point I see that Luther had no credibility at ...The point I see that Luther had no credibility at all. <br /><br />(1) Did not understand Catholic teaching. Built his case for the reformation on a straw man.<br /><br />(2) Had deeply emotional problems which made him unfit to be a monk or Catholic teacher or priest.<br /><br />(3) Made up teachings or dogmas never taught before in the History of Christendom.<br /><br />(4)Broke his vows as a monk "which is very serious" by marrying a nun that broke her vows.<br /><br />(5)Suffer from scruples which lead him to be nugde by a lighting storm to become a monk.<br /><br />(6)Bipolar disorder, unbalance mind.<br />(7) Other reformers rejected Luther and Philipp Melanchthon had to keep Luther under control.<br /><br />(8) Luther reformation was the cause another wave of the heresy Iconoclasm. <br /><br />(9) Luther writeing on the Jews is <br />embarrassing and shameful.Since the 1980s, Lutheran Church denominations have repudiated Martin Luther's statements against the Jews and have rejected the use of them to incite hatred against Jews<br /><br />(10)Martin Luther was excommunicated of the Catholic Church. When Luther received the Papal Bull, he burned it in front of his students.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6422857.post-46078514479412496652009-06-19T12:46:53.726-04:002009-06-19T12:46:53.726-04:00"I'm tempted to say that Luther never cla..."I'm tempted to say that Luther never claimed to be impeccable..."<br /><br />Good, because no Catholic doctrine claims that the pope is impeccable, so we agree that this point is irrelevant.<br /><br />"We have a safety valve to prevent pretentious pontificators from introducing false doctrines. You do not."<br /><br />Hmm, interesting point, given that the Catholic Church is <i>one</i> and the Protestant denominations are <i>more than one</i>. Somehow, with all of our "pretentious pontificators", we still manage to obey Christ's desire that "all be one in Him". Unfortunately, Protestantism does not succeed at that so well. If by "safety valve", you mean the Bible, then men's use of God's Holy Word apart from the moorings of historical Christianity has produced a cacophony of sects instead of a harmonious whole. This proves to be no safety valve for preventing error and thereby producing singular doctrines among the various Protestant groups. The only point on which all Protestantism appears to agree is that the Catholic Church can't possibly be preaching the Gospel correctly.<br /><br />Yours in Christ's Love,Dominicanisnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6422857.post-31561085327709329742009-06-19T11:24:09.017-04:002009-06-19T11:24:09.017-04:00Anon: So how do you justify, for example, the typ...Anon: So how do you justify, for example, the typical protestant practice of divorce and remarriage in light of Jesus' clear statement? Some safety valve you have there.<br /><br />DaveAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6422857.post-78545183131806975002009-06-19T11:18:45.979-04:002009-06-19T11:18:45.979-04:00I'm tempted to say that Luther never claimed t...I'm tempted to say that Luther never claimed to be impeccable, but your case is weaker than that. He would also say that anything he'd say should be validated by scripture, so what is your point?<br /><br />We have a safety valve to prevent pretentious pontificators from introducing false doctrines. You do not.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6422857.post-46232271602480706802009-06-18T08:18:53.812-04:002009-06-18T08:18:53.812-04:00"...who is this Henry, this new Thomist, this..."...who is this Henry, this new Thomist, this disciple of the idle monsters, that I should treat with respect his poisonous blasphemies?"<br /><br />Who?? Why, this is <i>who!</i><br /><br />http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znv_sUPaKfE<br /><br />LOL!!!!!!Ben Mnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6422857.post-65965689650851992802009-06-18T05:31:17.598-04:002009-06-18T05:31:17.598-04:00"Recently I discovered an entire online trans..."Recently I discovered an entire online translation of Martin Luther's tract, Against Henry [VIII], King of England (15 July 1522), translated by E. S. Buchanan, and published in New York by Charles A. Swift in 1928."<br /><br />LOLOLOLOLJames Swanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16136781934797867593noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6422857.post-52887774871615726692009-06-18T01:18:19.746-04:002009-06-18T01:18:19.746-04:00Beautiful design Dave!
And I like Blogger commen...Beautiful design Dave! <br /><br />And I like Blogger comments-I can now leave obnoxiously long comments and not have to worry about them being cut off like with Haloscan.<br /><br />God bless!Paul Hofferhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09182683665344747977noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6422857.post-34061931973678950162009-06-18T00:04:33.354-04:002009-06-18T00:04:33.354-04:00Ah, so this is where global warming comes from - L...Ah, so this is where global warming comes from - Luther's hot air finally caught up to us! LOL!<br /> <br />______________<br />"I have all but passed over the most important point of all. While you were still quite small, bishop Anastasius of holy and blessed memory ruled the Roman church. In his days a terrible storm of heresy came from the East and strove first to corrupt and then to undermine that simple faith which an apostle has praised. (Romans 1:8) However the bishop, rich in poverty and as careful of his flock as an apostle, at once smote the noxious thing on the head, and stayed the hydra's hissing."<br /><br />St. Jerome, Letter 130:16<br />http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/1503.htmBen Mnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6422857.post-35977984494404941472009-06-17T21:51:40.296-04:002009-06-17T21:51:40.296-04:00Great new look Dave. I also love the fact you put ...Great new look Dave. I also love the fact you put the little flower on top of your web page. Awsome!<br /><br />JerryCarmelitehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10044523182742666666noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6422857.post-91332187220345758812009-06-17T21:11:11.569-04:002009-06-17T21:11:11.569-04:00And ripping Thomists is no way for him to win me o...And ripping Thomists is no way for him to win <em>me</em> over. :-)Fred Noltiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10203885485191808284noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6422857.post-28404197403240247392009-06-17T21:07:52.343-04:002009-06-17T21:07:52.343-04:00Whoa! Nice redecorating!
--RdPWhoa! Nice redecorating!<br /><br />--RdPFred Noltiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10203885485191808284noreply@blogger.com