tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6422857.post114780291816675137..comments2023-10-05T08:25:13.232-04:00Comments on Biblical Evidence for Catholicism: Biblical Evidence for Papal and Church InfallibilityDave Armstronghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07771661758539438173noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6422857.post-29260521011028183202015-07-22T20:39:07.672-04:002015-07-22T20:39:07.672-04:00I tend to look at the issue of infallibility this ...I tend to look at the issue of infallibility this way.. It seems that God is perfectly humble. He is so humble that he gives to us - attributes that are only His. So we actually become true Sons of God. Now Jesus is a Son by his nature. We are Sons by adoption but we are true Sons. I have two adopted sons and three biological sons. My adopted children are no less my children. They have all of the same rights as the biological sons. <br /><br />Now the Church - which is the "body of Christ" and the "bride of Christ"(the two become "one flesh")by Gods' grace has the same attributes as Christ. So just as Christ is the "sole mediator" by His nature - we are given a right to "mediate" through prayer - and share in Christs' action (united to Him and solely based on him)Just as Christ performed miracles - we see members of the Church have performed miracles - Just as Christ is priest prophet and King - the Church has Priests Prophets and Kings - and Yes just as Christ taught with infallible assurance - the Church can teach with infallible assurance. All of this is based completely on Christ and His promises. he says "He who hears you - Hears Me" and "If they won't hear two witnesses - bring them to the Church" and so forth. Yes God is that Humble.<br />When one thinks of prideful arrogance one need look no further than the Protestant principle of Private interpretation. The very concept is one of Pride.<br /><br />I always ask the Protestant how he knows that the books of Mark, Luke, the Acts of the Apostles, and perhaps Hebrews = should be contained in the New testament and how does he know that these books are inspired. The books were not written by apostles. They do not claim to be inspired. so why do we include them in the holy Writ.<br /><br />The Catholic answer is because we received the books from the apostles who gave them to us. So it is the Tradition passed on from the Apostles that we believe. The same reason I believe in infant Baptism is the same reason I believe in the Book of Mark. Its not about my personal opinion. Its about believing what has been passed on . . .Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10688430374795771820noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6422857.post-4542013641445362632013-12-31T15:55:09.734-05:002013-12-31T15:55:09.734-05:00Virtually all of the major differences between Pro...Virtually all of the major differences between Protestants and Catholics stem from the Catholic belief in the doctrinal infallibility of the church and our disbelief in it. So, not trying to be a pain, but before we even consider the other differences, you need to show how the Catholic Church is infallible in all doctrines, which you try to do in this article The quotation from Malachi chapter 2 was clearly taken out of context and was a key part of your argument. Take it in context, however, and you not only lose evidence for infallibility, but give evidence against infallibility. And let's not forget that the Pharisees included Annas and Caiaphas, the high priests, who were the anointed spiritual leaders of Israel. They were absolutely certain they were serving God while they were killing the Son of God.<br /><br />Did the Holy Spirit anoint and approve what was written in the Jerusalem Council, yes. Does that say that every time the leaders of the Catholic Church (or any church for that matter) get together that they're made infallible in doctrine, no. From this passage, Catholics would say that you can reasonably infer that the church is made infallible in all doctrinal decisions. That is a key difference between Catholic and evangelical beliefs: reasonable inference, which is man’s opinion. Does the Spirit guide men and councils in the church, yes, but men and councils do not always follow. In Galatians chapter 2, Peter, Barnabas, and all the other Jews except Paul violated the Jerusalem Council and played the hypocrite until Paul publicly rebuked Peter. If your strongest example of infallibility only stands because of reasonable inference, then, in my humble opinion, you should rethink that belief. Reasonable inference is the reason for different beliefs on baptism, communion, naming of saints and asking them for intercession, penance, required celibacy, having a pope, etc. If you have to use reasonable inference (once again, man’s opinion) to explain so many of your traditions, it sounds like you’re twisting Scripture to suit you, and (not calling you the devil or trying to disrespect you or anyone else) that is exactly what satan did when he tempted Eve and Christ. He quoted God’s Word, but with his own twist on it.<br /><br />God BlessAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01437382014784982615noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6422857.post-29696019822527266862013-12-31T12:02:15.289-05:002013-12-31T12:02:15.289-05:00See also this web page of mine:
http://socrates58...See also this web page of mine:<br /><br />http://socrates58.blogspot.com/2008/05/biblical-evidence-and-exegetical-series.htmlDave Armstronghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07771661758539438173noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6422857.post-9085673805323853922013-12-31T12:01:14.614-05:002013-12-31T12:01:14.614-05:00We can be taught. Show us in the Scriptures if we&...<i>We can be taught. Show us in the Scriptures if we're wrong.</i><br /><br />Excellent! I have written probably over 25 books of my 42, showing from the Scriptures how Protestantism gets some major things wrong and Catholicism gets it right. So I'm absolutely delighted that you are open to correction.<br /><br />If you or anyone is interested in my biblical argumentation, see my books page:<br /><br />http://socrates58.blogspot.com/2007/12/dave-armstrong-catholic-apologetics.htmlDave Armstronghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07771661758539438173noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6422857.post-14838366144942937932013-12-31T11:47:34.703-05:002013-12-31T11:47:34.703-05:00You're assuming that the pope and bishops can&...You're assuming that the pope and bishops can't be mistaken by accepting their teachings as infallible. Take another look at Malachi chapter 2, which was quoted out of context for this article. It is better to start from verse one and read through verse nine to get the whole picture that God is cursing the priests, but even in the last part of verse eight, it is obvious that God is not at all pleased with the priests. This was referenced to provide biblical evidence of infallibility but in reality, it shows the opposite. Judaism was the church back then and the law was the doctrine that was taught; God said, “… you have caused many to stumble at the law.” If the priests caused many to stumble on the doctrine of the day, it is painfully obvious that God didn’t make their doctrinal decisions infallible.<br /><br />Also, if teachers of the Word are granted infallibility in matters of doctrine, what would be the reason for them to receive a stricter judgement as it says in James 3:1? The tradition of claiming doctrinal infallibility in the Catholic Church makes this verse of no effect, which is what Christ blistered the Pharisees for: making the commandment of God of no effect because of their tradition (Matthew 15:1-14).<br /><br />The Catholic Church takes a very liberal interpretation of Scripture, while evangelical churches, like the one I attend, take a very conservative interpretation of Scripture. The difference being that the Catholic Church claims all its doctrines are protected by infallibility, while evangelical churches (or at least mine) say, "We can be taught. Show us in the Scriptures if we're wrong." Which of those sounds prideful and which sounds humble?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01437382014784982615noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6422857.post-49527753676523103762009-11-16T10:35:22.126-05:002009-11-16T10:35:22.126-05:00Hi Randy. People throw the word TRUE around alot. ...<i>Hi Randy. People throw the word TRUE around alot. The jehovas call themselves the true church, the mormons are the true church.Saying it dont make it so.</i><br />Just saying so is not enough. We must test everything. The Jehovah's Witnesses begain around 1870. The Mormons about a century before that. They cannot be the true church because they have not existed the entire time the true church existed. That is from Pentecost to the present day.<br /><br /><br /><i>Yes, god left us with a guide book. Its called the bible.i use King James.</i><br />How did He leave us with a guidebook? What was the process by which we came to know the bible as the ispired word of God? What did Christians do before they had the bible?<br /><br /><i>Every religion tells its members that they are the true church.I got true churches coming out of my ears.</i><br />Actually most do not. Most protestant churches will say the true church is invisible and spiritual. That they are simply a collection of believers who try and follow the bible as best they know how. It is a very different claim than the one the catholic church makes.<br /><br /><i>I just follow the Lamb where he goes. The rest of yall can follow who and what you like.Remember what the bible teaches;Let god be true and EVERY man a liar</i><br /><br />I beleive I am following the Lamb. Do you know that I am not. I don't think most men lie. I think they are sincere. But logic tells us most must be mistaken. You can assume that you are not among the mistaken ones. Your odds are not good. <br /><br />The alternative is to do what Christians did for the first 1500 years. That is to take leadership from a bishop who is in unity with the pope. Then you will share the one faith that has transcended time and culture.Randyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16751516602395247675noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6422857.post-77788420895189921502009-11-15T14:28:36.635-05:002009-11-15T14:28:36.635-05:00Hi Maroun, Yes protestant leaders have tortured an...Hi Maroun, Yes protestant leaders have tortured and killed.The early americans(colonists)tortured its own people for things the thought were bad.They took their ques from the catholic henchmen.Did i forget to mention that i dont belong to any religion?st boscohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05633452143280172671noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6422857.post-38369453158237275662009-11-15T14:25:16.131-05:002009-11-15T14:25:16.131-05:00Hi Randy. People throw the word TRUE around alot. ...Hi Randy. People throw the word TRUE around alot. The jehovas call themselves the true church, the mormons are the true church.Saying it dont make it so.Yes, god left us with a guide book. Its called the bible.i use King James.Every religion tells its members that they are the true church.I got true churches coming out of my ears.I just follow the Lamb where he goes. The rest of yall can follow who and what you like.Remember what the bible teaches;Let god be true and EVERY man a liarst boscohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05633452143280172671noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6422857.post-29072113901609527852009-11-14T23:38:01.172-05:002009-11-14T23:38:01.172-05:00find a quiet time alone and ask Jesus to reveal hi...<i>find a quiet time alone and ask Jesus to reveal himself to you. Then you wont have to guess anymore</i><br /><br />Is that a process that is immune from error? People do that and end up doing immoral things or embracing heresy. <br /><br />Nobody in the church is protected from sin. So if God wants to clarify some truth to us, how could He do it? You seem to think He can't. But is it not at least possible God left some way for us to know true teachers from false ones? How can you be sure God does not work that way?Randyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16751516602395247675noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6422857.post-90987899368281567202009-11-14T19:47:07.493-05:002009-11-14T19:47:07.493-05:00Hiand thanks for your honest relplies. My point is...Hiand thanks for your honest relplies. My point is; is this organization what Jesus wants to build on? One guy said; forget how bad the popes act, it is their office that god directs. Jesus makes it very plain.Can a well give bitter water and sweet? My friends, find a quiet time alone and ask Jesus to reveal himself to you. Then you wont have to guess anymore.st boscohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05633452143280172671noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6422857.post-9017666692876247942009-11-14T18:33:03.386-05:002009-11-14T18:33:03.386-05:00The real answer is it does not matter. Sure many a...The real answer is it does not matter. Sure many accusations are false. Sure protestants are as bad. But neither fact matters. What matters is the office is protected even when the office-holder sins badly. So even if the pope was personally in that torture chamber killing people for owning bibles that would not be a reason to reject the doctrine of the papacy. The doctrine says nothing about the popes being nice guys. Praise God that most of them have been holy men. But that is beside the point. What is the point is they are the rock Jesus is building His church on. Jesus is the cement that turns a foundation of sand into one of stone. That is who we trust when we trust the papacy.Randyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16751516602395247675noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6422857.post-21430220429208673122009-11-14T12:22:11.615-05:002009-11-14T12:22:11.615-05:00See also my web page that examines the many and va...See also my web page that examines the many and varied Protestant scandals throughout history, too. Don't buy the sheer nonsense that only Catholics have ever persecuted anyone else, or that they are infinitely worse than Protestants, who supposedly have a spotless, pure record (LOL):<br /><br /><i>Historic Protestant Persecution and Intolerance</i><br /><br />http://socrates58.blogspot.com/2006/11/protestantism-index-page.htmlDave Armstronghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07771661758539438173noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6422857.post-47703214888063518162009-11-14T11:41:54.070-05:002009-11-14T11:41:54.070-05:00Hi, thanks for response.Hey, i might be wrong. ive...Hi, thanks for response.Hey, i might be wrong. ive been wrong befor. My spelling might be off ,but the waldensee extermination? i was sure i read about that in common college texts on history. And i thought i read something about an inquisition. When i was in europe, part of the tour was visiting inquisition chambers. lots of the torture devices were still there. I almost vomited once. Maybe they were my imagination. sorry to bother you.st boscohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05633452143280172671noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6422857.post-11174877255997868552009-11-14T08:13:07.666-05:002009-11-14T08:13:07.666-05:00st bosco,who told you that the pope and the magist...st bosco,who told you that the pope and the magisterium ,burned people for owning bibles?Probably you have read it in some anticatholic sites or books right?<br />With all my respect which is less than 1% for people like you pretending to be wise go and check some books not written by liars and anticatholics,then come back plz.Marounhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17891800446559973689noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6422857.post-46825145475209205202009-11-14T02:32:43.937-05:002009-11-14T02:32:43.937-05:00Hi, so the pope and the magisterium got handed the...Hi, so the pope and the magisterium got handed the word to go burn people at the stake for owning bibles, and or believeing the bible over the catholic church? m sory, but i reaaly dont beelieve God works thru this organization. thanks for your timest boscohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05633452143280172671noreply@blogger.com