Saturday, September 17, 2011

Discussion With an African-American About President Obama, Institutional Racism, and the Alleged Ku Klux Klan-Like Tea Party

 Rep. Andre Carson of Indiana: "some of them in Congress right now of this tea party movement would love to see you and me . . . hanging on a tree."

This occurred in a Facebook combox, with one of my friends there, David B. Chambers, who is a Catholic deacon, and who says he is not a "liberal." His words will be in blue.

* * * * *

Obama was elected to assuage white guilt for traditional racism. A year before we were told that a black man could never be elected. Right. Racism wasn't quite as bad as it was made out (as I had been saying for the previous 25 years). Now that it is out of our system, we can vote more sensibly (hopefully). The economy will be determinative.

Racism permeates the soul like insanity; the insane person is the FIRST to deny it. Why does money always trump fairness and equality??? People feared a black president because it is something they have ever experienced. Yes abortion is evil; I think it is a hate crime. I believe oral contraception was legalized to prevent interracial babies during a time when whites thought simply being around black people might cause a plethora of race mixing; I think abortion was legalized to further prevent black/mixed babies when forced busing was implemented in the schools. NIXON, a republican was president!!!!

There was definitely a racist (and abortion) connection with contraception, when one looks at the eugenic and hyper-racist views of Margaret Sanger, the founder of Planned Parenthood. She wanted less black folks around. I think there is a subtle racism today when contraception is particularly urged for the inner cities. The mentality is that if there are less African-Americans born in the first place, supposedly that is a good thing.

The greatest tragedy is to see former pro-lifers like Jesse Jackson and to see Obama himself, enthusiastically support black genocide and self-destruction of a community through abortion. Things are bad enough (broken homes, rampant illegitimacy, 50% unemployment rates for black teenagers) without black leaders espousing the radical abortion / contraceptive / historically racist agenda. Their co-option by the white racist liberal agenda has been quite complete.

Having inside knowledge about adoption, I know healthy white babies are more valuable; studying economics, I know people have a monetary value according to their race; I am well versed with Sanger. I also know our eugenics studies rivaled many an Austrian scholar. Many in this country thought people of color were going to naturally die out. Importing people from the most inhospitable place on earth nullifies our early extinction. America has an opportunity to retain it's greatness by trying harder to admit the past and learn from the past.

We have learned from the past, as evidenced by electing a black President. We're much more colorblind now. I would contend that the alarming problems in the African-American community at the present time stem mostly from the nonsense of liberalism, not racism. No doubt there is a residual effect from the abominable history, but the problems endemic now (and I was a sociology major at Wayne State in Detroit, and grew up in inner city Detroit so I know a little about this stuff) result from failed social policies like the Great Society, welfare, freely available abortion and contraception, and the more or less compete caving (even in the black Protestant churches) on the morality of premarital sex, etc. Broken homes determine almost everything: lives of crime, poverty, hopelessness . . .

[Patty Bonds] Shoot, I couldn't stand him long before he took the oath . . the first time.

I rest my case. God bless.

What, is Patty a racist because she doesn't care for Obama? Is Maxine Waters a bigot when she says the tea party can go to hell? Or that other clown from Indiana (Congressman Andre Carson), when he says the tea party wants to hang black people from trees?:

Rep. Andre Carson, a Democrat from Indiana who serves as the CBC’s chief vote counter, said at a CBC event in Miami that some in Congress would “love to see us as second-class citizens” and “some of them in Congress right now of this tea party movement would love to see you and me ... hanging on a tree.”

Carson also said the tea party is stopping change in Congress, likening it to “the effort that we’re seeing of Jim Crow.”

The explosive comments, caught on tape, were uploaded on the Internet Tuesday, and Carson’s office stood by the remarks.

[Be sure to see Rep. Allen West's videotaped reply to these charges on the same page]

There are hateful people of color. I have never been black enough for many black folks; especially for my embrace of Roman Catholicism It might go both ways, but I along with millions never made laws to promote apartheid here in early America, and Blacks never had dogs, police, fire hoses, and billy clubs, to threaten whole populations.

No one is denying that! Any idiot knows the sad history. I'm talking about whether racism explains all problems in the African-American community today, and whether opposition to Obama's policies makes one a racist, and it can be no other possible reason.

We've elected a black President. That was the only thing I was happy about when he got in. Now, the test is to see if white folks will be allowed to dare criticize the black President. True equality, after all, means being subject to criticism just like any other President has been.

Equality is treating people equally regardless of color, ethnicity, class, etc. Presidents get criticized and voted out, like all other politicians. So Obama will be criticized. And now he is by prominent African-Americans like Cornel West, Tavis Smiley, etc. Therefore, precisely because I treat him no different from anyone else, I can criticize his policies without (hopefully) hearing the ubiquitous racist charge.

But if I treat him with kid gloves because he is black (half-black: he's as much white as he is black, and was raised by the white side of his family), then I am being patronizing and condescending, thinking he is too stupid to handle criticism because he is inferior.

What is threatening African-Americans today far more than racism is broken homes, drugs, rampant immoral sexual practices, and black-on-black crime. I agree that this can be traced to negative influences of racism in some sense, but not directly. If someone chooses to do or deal drugs or to kill someone else in his own community, I did not cause that. But I can help in starting to overcome these problems, by preaching the message of traditional Christian morality and by pointing out how well-intentioned liberalism has largely been the immediate or primary cause of this in the last 50 years.

No, Patty is not a racist simply because she dislikes Obama. But I have little faith in the tea party. In my lifetime I have never seen as much exposed hatred from that group and others like them whom I truly feel are on the wrong side of history, period.

Okay; if those in the tea party are such haters and racists, please document this for me. We have seen how loving those who oppose them are: Vice President Joe Biden called them "terrorists"; Rep. Maxine Waters said they could go to hell; Rep. Andre Carson said they want to lynch blacks, etc. It's the usual lunatic left-wing personal attacks: anything goes.

Now, since I have documented these things, please document for me similar words from anyone prominent in the tea party, or anyone at all. Thanks! Clearly you must know of some examples, to have the strong feelings that you do.

If you weren't implying that Patty was a racist, then what did you mean by saying, "I rest my case"? Rest it about what? How is that relevant to Patty saying she doesn't care for President Obama?

I am not a liberal. I have never been a liberal. I have gone to school, worked since I was 14. (I lied saying I was older). Went to college, dental school, became a deacon after six years of study,I had to be "whiter" than white in my classical training; and still, being black is like being NAKED in this society! Everybody sees you and immediately forms an opinion about my social nudity.

You're not a liberal. Great. Who did you vote for in 2008 then?
Do you want to talk about the topic or not? You have made claims; now please back them up. You claim that the tea party is full of hate. Why? Do you have no documented facts to bring to the table?

If America were as profoundly racist as you make out, how in the world could it elect a black President? Even during the primaries, many black people were supporting Hilary Clinton because they couldn't imagine that it could ever be possible that a black man could be elected. Wrong! Yet here we are with the same racism-as-the-explanation-of-everything thinking. What does it take?

Maybe if all 535 in the Congress are black then we will cease being an institutionally racist country? The President is not enough. Secretaries of State, governors, chairmen of the joint chiefs of staff, Supreme Court Justices aren't enough? When can we get past this? There are still plenty of individual racists, for sure, but I am saying that this country is not institutionally racist anymore.

When Republican Presidents were in office, every ill in the black community was blamed on them, even though the median income of African-Americans increased considerably during the Reagan years. Now that Obama is in there and black teenage unemployment is at 50%, that has nothing to do with him, and is because of Bush and historic racism and nothing else. I get sick of simplistic, shoddy thinking about these racial issues!

I cannot hide behind the social veil that whites hide behind.That veil might be hiding sexual orientation, poverty, criminality, ignorance,and even racism. if you are black, prejudice might label me as one or all of the above because white is still the gold standard.

Alright. I tried to have an intelligent, rational conversation. Takes two.

I am used to being insulted by people like you .....

I insulted no one. I simply stated that this is not a conversation, which is undeniable. You're not interacting with anything; just raving and preaching. And now it is "people like you" [me]. Right.

Wow, you even got somebody that LOOKS like me!

Might as well, since you and him (Rep. Andre Carson) think so much alike. 

So opinionated you are; just like when I tried to simply defend myself from silly insults in high school and at UT, this childish over reaction you display by retaliating 1000 times more than necessary appear to be consistent to what whites have always done to me. What are you afraid of? I think it's the truth you fear. I will pray for you, my apologist friend; that is what Catholics do too.

I don't fear the truth at all. I've changed my mind about almost every major area in life (that's part of being a Catholic convert), precisely because I followed truth wherever it led. If you are such a profound truth-teller, then why don't you cease a moment from the asinine insults and sweeping statements about "whites" and document your ridiculous charges against the Tea Party? Or would that put you out, to actually deal with facts rather than merely nasty insinuations, as you have been doing throughout this "discussion"?

See a CNN video of Republican presidential nominee Herman Cain contending that the Tea Party is not a racist organization. His remarks about that start at around 2:40 and go to 4:40.

Like Flip Wilson said; "when the revolution comes , we gonna have to get rid of some of us too!"

So Cain, Clarence Thomas, Thomas Sowell, Walt Williams, Shelby Steele, Allen West, et al (all black conservatives) will be tossed off the liberal plantation-paradise as Uncle Toms?

You forgot Ward Connerly. Are you a Catholic apologist or a tea party apologist?

I can be more than one thing. Can't someone walk and chew gum at the same time? I'm an apologist; also an outdoorsman, NBA fan, music lover, mountain biker, softball enthusiast, follower of politics, observer of culture, film buff, etc. I'm not a "tea party apologist"; I believe in telling the truth and not slandering large groups of people. I defend anyone who is being lied about. If someone lied about you and said you were a conservative I would defend you. :-)

I'm more than just conservative, I care about folk.

Do I care about folk, too?

You obviously do.

You tube has many videos showing the tea party and the bigots that permeate that group. I did try to send videos to your wall, and paste net addresses to this discussion, but could not. Just go to you tube and type in tea party racists. You write well, but sound unreachable, I'm tired of talking about this; you have much to say about the faith I have always embraced; I like much of what you have to say about Catholicism.

Fair enough (and I'm glad we agree on something). Cain addressed this in the video. One can find instances of racist wackos anywhere. We can all be assured that racists have had posters at rallies somewhere. I used to have posts documenting how leftists would doctor pictures of President Bush as Hitler. The question is whether they are representative of the whole Tea Party movement. Cain has been to many rallies and states that they are not at all. I have no reason to doubt him. You shouldn't either. But if you are looking to tar an entire group with the racist label, based on a few pictures of nutjob racist morons like that, then you are harming the cause of truth and civil political discourse in this country, not helping it.

Here are some images from Google of Bush-Hitler comparisons (language warning), and Bush as a dunce. Do we conclude from these that all leftists are hateful bigots because some few fringe maniacs "argue" like this? Yet this is what you do to the Tea Party because some images can easily be found online.
I condemn all this garbage from both broad political sides. There is legitimate criticism and satire, but also lines that should not be crossed.



romishgraffiti said...

This is what happens when you stop evaluating a person's acts and public statements, and start trying to scry someone's motives: one starts making groundless assertions and proclaims them dogma by fiat. Perhaps "latent" or "institutional" racism exists, but they are intangible. This wouldn't be the problem except that what we have now is innocent people burdened with "sensitivity training" workshops, while actual racists (the kind that would punch you in the nose if you tried this bs on them) go unmolested. But watch what happens: you get a bunch of progressives condemning intangible racism for the harm it does to society (what kind of harm and how cause-effect works, they don't know), BUT if we suggest that homosexual culture and same-sex "marriage" does harm to society, those same progressives turn into hard-nosed empiricists demanding double-blind researched scientific proof of tangible harm to society. Special plead much?

Scott W.

Pilgrimsarbour said...

Racism permeates the soul like insanity; the insane person is the FIRST to deny it.

Hence it is insanity for me to even try to deny that I am racist. You win.

People feared a black president because it is something they have ever (sic) experienced.

It does me no good to deny the concept that I fear Barack Obama since I am an insane racist and hate all blacks. Even with all that baggage I carry I would have gladly voted for him if he were a right-thinking (right as in clear, common sense) individual. You win.

I think abortion was legalized to further prevent black/mixed babies when forced busing was implemented in the schools.

Social engineering has always been the purview of the leftist intellectual elites. Sometimes they even pressure moderates and conservatives into adopting their views on some issues because they speak with some kind of "authority." People tend to bow to intellectuals without critical thinking. When conservatives exercise critical thinking, they are called radicals. Violent. Misfits. Hatemongers. Teabaggers. RACISTS. You win.

I know healthy white babies are more valuable;

The black "leadership" has made it almost impossible for whites to adopt black babies (or older children), even though many would wish to out of love in the Name of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. But we're racists, you see, so we can't possibly have the best interests of the black child at heart in the Name of Christ. We won't educate them by exploring their African identity (whether that is their real heritage or not); we can't be trusted to raise them to be "black," whatever that means. You win.

America has an opportunity to retain it's (sic) greatness by trying harder to admit the past and learn from the past.

Yes, as long as what we learn from the past is what you want us to learn from the past. There apparently is nothing objective to learn. We only need learn and accept the fact that we whites are hopelessly racist, that blacks are not and can never be racist, that those two "realities" will never change, and that we must bow the knee accordingly. It really is a power play; victimization is the new avenue to power for those who conceive themselves as being continuously "victimized" and "powerless." And you MUST maintain the narrative which the white liberal elites have concocted for the purpose of keeping black people "under control" in order to keep that sense of power over whites that you relish. It's a very weird psychology, but it seems to be very popular today and works (to one degree or another) for many. Just look at the "careers" of the so-called black leaders like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton. They have, in reality, nothing of substance to offer the black community, or anyone else for that matter, yet they are very wealthy at the expense of their poverty-stricken followers. You win?

My advice to you would be to think outside the white liberal plantation box for once. Stop listening to these people, black and white, who seem to have a hold on so many. Don't be a tool. Tell yourself you refuse to be a victim any longer and break out of the herd mentality. Embrace those who care about you enough not to accord you special status and treat you like a child who can't take care of himself without a liberal elite's helping hand. It's a cruel, bitter hand, and you're worse off for it. Just look at the inner cities; the legacy of liberal white policies for decades. You win?

May God richly bless you as you seek to serve Him.