Biblical Evidence for Catholicism: J.I. Packer Quits Anglican Church of Canada

Packer, 81, is one of the most renowned evangelical theologians. He is joining a more orthodox traditional Anglican group. See the story.

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Discussion Policy, Socratic Philosophy, Dissings & Rah-Rahs

Thoughts on Amiable and Constructive Dialogue

Purely Slanderous Posts

Where there is much desire to learn, there of necessity will be much arguing, much writing, many opinions; for opinion in good men is but knowledge in the making.

--- John Milton

I Peter 3:15: "But in your hearts set apart Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give a reason for the hope that you have, but do this with gentleness and respect".

Most people I've had discussions with on this blog have been and continue to be very kindly . . . even though we have dissenting views. I appreciate it from everyone and continue to thank Dave for hosting this and welcoming us Protestants. . . . We often have extremely differing views, but I've rarely been treated harshly. I thoroughly enjoy coming here and discussing stuff with y'all.

--- "Grubb" (evangelical Protestant regular on this blog), 12-11-06 and 2-13-07

There isn't any way this guy should be taken seriously as a professional apologist. He's a guy sitting behind a computer, somewhere in Michigan.

--- John Q. "Deadhead" Doe (anti-Catholic Reformed Protestant), 17 April 2007

I keep coming back here, because conversation at other Catholic-Protestant discussion blogs tends to get venomously anti-Catholic [with] ad hominem attacks on anyone who doesn't agree with the blogmaster and his pool of apparatchiks, whether the dissenter is Catholic OR Protestant. Cor ad cor loquitur is something of an internet anomaly: we engage in virtually ANY discussion without being censored and yet still manage for it not to get profane, something I rarely (if ever) see anywhere else on the net.

--- "Jon" (Catholic)

I find your site very refreshing and very informative . . . It's nice to find people who realize that being ecumenical doesn't mean ignoring important differences in doctrine, but rather means celebrating all that we have in common, while holding fast to all dogma. Your defenses of Catholicism are very well-written and very thought-provoking.

--- Baptist seminary student

I guess then we can see how sincere you are about wanting to discuss scripture. That is, not at all.

--- "Hilasterion" (anti-Catholic Protestant)

Dave Armstrong writes me really nice letters when I ask questions. As someone ridiculed by the arsonists [Phil Johnson's blog], I have to have a liking for the guy. Really, his notes to me are always first class and very respectful and helpful. . . . Dave Armstrong has continued to answer my questions in respectful and helpful ways. I thank the Lord for him.

--- Michael Spencer (evangelical Protestant), aka "The Internet Monk", on the Boar's Head Tavern site, 27 and 29 September 2007

. . . even Dave Armstrong’s blog has had some basically good posts . . .

--- Steve (aka "St. Worm": Anglican), on Tim Enloe's blog, 10 June 2009

8 years. Wow! I can’t even imagine putting up with the apologists for that long. Now, I pity you. :-) Even as a Catholic, I’ve gotten into it with Bryan Cross and Dave Armstrong, both of which are completely frustrating to have a dialog with. Just going at it with the two of them made we want to stay away forever. Bryan, at least I can say is a good guy and truly does mean well; even if he does have amazing powers of sophistry – and he has an odd sense of “unity” and “ecumenism”. Armstrong on the other hand…. I’m still speechless.

--- Mark (Catholic) [link], on Frank Ramirez' ("kepha's") blog, fides quarens intellectum, 6 November 2008 [link]

Dave . . . rises to any challenges against the Catholic faith coming his way. He's exhaustive, punctilious and for most of his adversaries, quite aggravating. He's the Catholic that no one can seem to shut up, and this grates on the nerves of anti-Catholic controversialists, whether of the scholarly kind, or of demagogues, bigots, and sophists. Dave will perform a real analysis of their postulates, atomize their arguments into individual thought components, and judge every single one individually on its merits, and also within their literary context. Anti-Catholics lose patience very quickly under this kind of scrutiny; many of them escape it by attacking Dave personally. Yet the man is completely unassuming, a simple soul, living simply with no pretensions at anything. I would say that his is a monastic life of work, prayer, and vast amounts of writing.

--- Pedro Vega (Catholic), 11 June 2005 on his blog, after we met [link]

. . . not interested in serious argument . . . handwaving and pseudo-philosophical mumbo-jumbo . . . hysterics . . . martyr . . . immaturity . . . [like] fundamentalists at the Pizza Parlor . . . arrogant, smug, pseudo-philosopher . . . behave like an ass . . . braying . . . crybaby . . . no understanding [of] basic philosophical method . . . logical fallacies and valueless tautologies . . . smug assertions . . . name-calling . . . hollow ridicule . . . baseless accusations . . . [no] substance . . . [doesn't understand] science or logic . . . closed mindedness . . . ignorance . . . lack of mental prowess . . . laziness.

---several scientific materialists in a November 2002 thread about same (This is my favorite set of personal insults of all time, and a source of endless amusement :-)

Blessed are you when men revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on my account. Rejoice and be glad, for your reward is great in heaven.

--- Matthew 5:11-12

But no human being can tame the tongue -- a restless evil, full of deadly poison. With it we bless the Lord and Father, and with it we curse men, who are made in the likeness of God. From the same mouth come blessing and cursing. My brethren, this ought not to be so.

--- James 3:8-10

What a special blessing it was yesterday and today to have as my guests Dave and Judy Armstrong . . . Judy Armstrong is a loving brown-eyed beauty, the kind of wife and mother many families could only dream of having. When she and Dave look at each other, their bond is obvious, a long history of shared crosses and blessings with a respected partner and an attraction which still has plenty of sparks and sparkle. Together, they are rearing terrific children and supporting each other in ministry. What a blessing it was to have hours of private conversation with Dave and Judy . . . Who is this Dave Armstrong? What is he really like? Well, he is affable, gentle, sweet, easily pleased, very appreciative, and affectionate . . . I was totally unprepared for the real guy. He's a teddy bear, cuddly and sweet. Doesn't interrupt, sits quietly and respectfully as his wife and/or another woman speaks at length. Doesn't dominate the conversation. Just pleasantly, cheerfully enjoys whatever is going on about him at the moment and lovingly affirms those in his presence. Most of the time he has a relaxed, sweet smile.

--- Becky Mayhew (Catholic), 9 May 2009, on the Coming Home Network Forum

Dave Armstrong . . . isn’t just a narcissistic little jerk. He’s actually evil.

--- Steve Hays (anti-Catholic reformed Protestant apologist and polemicist), 13 April 2009

Let me just say a word here for Dave Armstrong. Despite his tendency to unload hundreds of pages and somewhat excessive self-promotion, he is a former Protestant Catholic who is in fact blessedly free of the kind of "any enemy of Protestantism is a friend of mine" coalition-building we've been discussing . . . Maybe he went through a 'I despise all of my past' stage at one point in his life, but at least now, he's pro-Catholic (naturally) without being anti-Protestant (or anti-Orthodox, for that matter).

---"CPA": Lutheran professor of history [see his site]: unsolicited remarks of 12 July 2005

Dave Armstrong is not merely closing the comments section of his apologetic blog -- he's getting out of the apologetic blog business entirely!

--- Dr. Eric Svendsen (anti-Catholic Protestant apologist), 4 January 2005

Thanks again for the great work you're doing for Christ and His Church.

--- Dr. Scott Hahn (Catholic apologist)

Usually the foaming at the mouth stuff is reserved for the Dave Armstrongs of the world. Get a real job Dave. Maybe you can debate people and lose for a living.

--- Bret L. McAtee (anti-Catholic Reformed Protestant pastor)

You are one of the most thoughtful and careful apologists out there.

--- Dr. Edwin Tait (Anglican Church historian)

I am reading your stuff since I think it is the most thorough and perhaps the best defense of Catholicism out there.

I have had many run-ins with Dave via email and he has been nothing but respectful and kind to me. He has shown me great respect despite knowing full well that I disagree with him on the essential issues.

--- Sam Shamoun (Reformed apologist who specializes in outreach to Muslims)

DA will use anything to attack the truth.

--- Right Reverend Bishop James White (anti-Catholic Reformed Baptist apologist), 28 March 2004

As for the body of your work generically considered, I think that certainly there must be some things of great value in your work . . . I do like your stuff on Lewis and Tolkien and “mythopoeics”. No doubt your materials on Mormonism and other counter-cult issues are valuable, too. I’ve read a few of your blog posts about abortion, and yes, those have been truly outstanding. Clearly you’re not some fringe kook just blabbing on a blog; you have a serious purpose in God’s Kingdom, and I’m glad for it. I have erred, I suppose, in not telling you when I found things of yours to be good, and so for that I ask your forgiveness.

--- Tim Enloe (Reformed Protestant apologist and controversialist)

Dave Armstrong is part of that narrow, clustered source of a body of anti-traditional Catholic thought . . . I feel safe enough saying that I think they have a hand in the destruction of the Faith . . . in general terms, I believe that they do immense damage to the Church.

--- "Emerald" ("traditionalist" Catholic)

I can testify to [Dave's] friendship with non-Catholic Christians personally; we built a good friendship when I was Anglican. He has always treated me with respect, never was he arrogant, triumphalistic or anything like that.

--- Bret Bellamy (Catholic)

. . . a moron . . . arrogant . . .

--- Brian Mershon ("traditionalist" Catholic)

I genuinely appreciate those few, like Dave . . . who are interested in the discussion in terms of both explaining their own views well and thoroughly and pushing people to do the same with their own. Based on my experience in this case, forming a dialogue successfully is like pulling teeth, no matter how sincere your motives. Of course, that just makes what Dave and others do (and the amount of effort it requires) look all the more impressive!

--- Jonathan Prejean (Catholic apologist)

When I was in a similar position -- i.e., when a lot of people thought the microwave had been going for long enough and I was about to pope any second -- a lot of Catholic e-pologists annoyed me to no end, badgering me about when I was going to take the plunge, etc., which only made my ornery nature want to stay away. Dave Armstrong was the Catholic who showed the most respect for my position. He asked questions, but he never badgered.

--- Greg Krehbiel (Catholic)

I admire, as ever, your fantastic and penetrating work.

--- Patrick Madrid (Catholic apologist)

Monday, April 28, 2008

J.I. Packer Quits Anglican Church of Canada

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